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Cold Open: On the afternoon of December 21st, 1978, a half-dozen Chicago investigators, armed with a fresh search warrant, made their way down into the crawlspace beneath the home of John Wayne Gacy, at 8213 West Summerdale Avenue, in the Norwood Park neighborhood of Chicago. Officer Daniel Genty made his way, crawling along his stomach, to a spot underneath Gacy’s kitchen where he saw what looked like human hair sticking out of the ground. Shining a floodlight on the area, he saw a long depression that looked like a dry lake bed with cracks in the yellow gray covering of a layer of lime that Gacy had put over the entire surface of the dirt beneath the home. Genty popped an entrenching tool into the ground and after two shovelfuls of dirt, he hit some whitish bits of soap-like material. It was adipocere (“Add-i-pah-sear”) flesh - body tissue that has chemically changed to a lard like substance due to rot and moisture. The crawlspace smelled like a sewer. Genty dug further and hit bone. An arm bone. Definitely human. There were more hair strands on his little shovel. Genty turned towards some other officers poking their heads through the crawlspace access door. “Charge him,” he said. “I’ve found one.” Within minutes, Gacy was in police custody, charged on suspicion of murder. The body Genty had began to uncover was the first of what would be 28 corpses that would be removed from underneath his home. We tend to like it dark here in the Suck, and it’s hard to get darker than this week’s Gacy. So let’s go full evil and explore the man, the murderer, the evil fucking children’s clown that was John Wayne Gacy, today, on Timesuck. PAUSE INTRO I. Welcome! A. Happy New Year Suckers! 2018. It’s here! Hail Nimrod! Let’s make it big.
I’m Dan Cummins, and this is Timesuck. Welcome to the Cult of the Curious. Lucifina is clearly steering us into the New Year. Not able to suck this one in the Suck Dungeon, the Suck Studio, the Suck Lair. Recording from Denver Colorado, where I’ve been doing shows at Comedy Works, and I’ve been overwhelmed by the amount of Timesuckers who came out. Now I also really want to add Denver to the list of cities to do a future live Timesuck in. Denver came out in force this week, and I appreciate it. Even received some gifts - got a framed Rasputin story newspaper clipping from 1917. Putting that in the office! And if you’re the Timesucker that gave it to me, please message me. I lost track of your name in the blur of Suckers I was meeting for the first time. Couple tour dates and then we’ll get to Gacy. More announcements at the end, including the topic for this Friday’s bonus suck and a special upcoming Timesuck live event. Indianapolis January 5th and 6th. Providence, RI January 19-20th. Chicopee, MA Jan 21st Philadelphia! January 25-27th. Baltimore January 28th - sorry that hasn’t been posted at Magooby’s website. Should be up by now. Chicago! January 31st through Feb. 3rd New York City - Gotham Comedy Club, one night only, Feb. 11th. More tour dates at either dancummins.tv or timesuckpodcast.com for more info. The Minneapolis tickets should now be on sale. They were supposed to be announced today - so grab those quick, limited seating. Ticket links, or least venue links, in the episode description for all the shows I mentioned and a few others I didn’t. More announcements at the end of the show, right now let’s get to Timesuck 68, the first suck of 2018, John Wayne Gacy! PAUSE INTERLUDE
Park. Sildo’s Rodeo? How many of you thought that sounded awfully close to Dildo’s Rodeo? Dildo the clown. Anyway, Portage Park is actually an officially designated Chicago community located on the northwest side of town and named due to it being the major portage linking the Des Plaines (“Dess Plaines” - like it’s spelled) and Chicago River. It also has the largest Polish community in all of Chicago, which if you’ve ever been to Chicago, is saying a lot, because that city is infested with dirty, mangy, disease riddled Polish people spreading their genetically tainted and inferior lineage. Little known fact, it’s actually uncommon for a Polish baby NOT to have several birth defects. Also, a Polish person of average human intelligence is considered a genius in the Polish community and sought out by other Polish people as a sort of oracle or shaman. Actual fact, my wife is Polish and I love to needlessly slander Polish people. I actually love Polish culture. Sausage and pirogis! Portage Park IS a heavily Polish, largely working class neighborhood, and Gacy was of primarily Polish descent. He was born on St. Patrick’s Day to John Wayne Gacy Sr., a Polish machinist and WWI veteran also born in Chicago. A stern, hard working, Polish Catholic man, who was also an abusive, violent, homophobic drunk. His mom was Marion Elaine Robinson, a homemaker with an incredible ability to live in total denial of her actual life. She was happy to be married to a man who made a good living and she would refuse to think John had anything to do with any of the murders until the day she died. John was their second child. John’s older sister Joanne had been born two years earlier in 1940. B. 1944 : In 1944, John Sr. and Marion’s third and final child, Karen is born. John Sr. would later be described by all three of his children as an unemotional man with a Jekyll and Hyde personality. His violence could seemingly show up out of nowhere. When little John was two, and his sister Karen was only three weeks old, he came home drunk
one night and punched out several of Marion’s teeth. She fled out into the street while two year old John and four year old Joanne screamed inside the house as their father further beat their mother on the sidewalk, only stopping when police officers intervened. As little John jr. got older, he’d try and come to his mother’s defense when his dad would attack her, his father would then also beat him and call him a sissy and a momma’s boy. “What kind of sissy tries to keep their momma from taking a good punch to the face? What are you gay? Little punching on mom got you weak in the knees?” John Sr. was a total piece of shit. Despite his violent temper, the kids apparently still loved their dad and were eager to please the man who wasn’t warm, but at least wasn’t beating the shit out of their mom, when he was sober. Sad, little John was really, really bad at pleasing his dad, who pretty much openly despised his son. His dad would call him fat, lazy, stupid - all kinds of things. And mom didn’t seem like an award winning parent either. When John was young, Marion once found a bag of her panties under the porch where John would play, so she made him wear a pair of her underwear to shame him for what he’d done. And then dad came home from work and beat him with a leather strap. He was once beaten with a leather belt by his father at the age of four for accidentally disarranging car engine components his father had assembled. Lot of stories about little John doing this, that, and the other and then getting beat with a leather strap. Dad loved to break out the leather apparently. Dad was also homophobic, not uncommon for a dad in the 40s, and would tell little John that he would “probably grow up to be queer.” His mother,, also would later say that if Gacy would’ve told his father he was gay, his dad probably would’ve killed him. So, you know, maybe John, Sr. was a little more aggressively homophobic than the average 1940s’dad. Towards the end of grade school, young Gacy began to suffer seizures and fainting spells and was periodically hospitalized. This really pissed dad off. John Sr felt that his pansy son was “faking it” for
trouble or any ting, I just, well, last night at work I fell into one of the coffins of the bodies I been working on, and, next thing you know, I got some dead 14 year old dick in my hand. How crazy is dat!?! Total accident of course. And, here’s the ting. I’m not in trouble or nuttin’. I just feel like, the longer I stay here, the more dead dick I’m gonna end up accidentally falling on and touching and grabbing and puttin’ in my mouth and slamming into my butt. You know how clumsy I am ma! And, I’d hate to embarrass dad if I got caught or any ting and people got the wrong idear. So I figure, how bouts I head home, where there’s, you know, less dead dick laying around for a totally straight guy like myself to fall on and such.” Back in Chicago, Gacy may or may not have gotten some type of degree from Northwestern Business College. I’m not sold on it. The vague business-y is referenced in enough sources I feel like it’s worth mentioning, but I can’t find any primary source that gives any real definitive information about when he attended or what degree he obtained, so, I’m giving it a maybe. He did get a job with the Nunn Bush shoe company and was transferred to Springfield, Illinois, 200 miles and a three hour drive away. The Nunn Bush shoe company is still around and seems to specialize in a variety of cheap wing tips, oxfords, and penny loafers worn by men who have completely given up any hope of ever making a woman’s vagina wet again. Picture the shoe of a struggling insurance salesman with a combover and a wispy mustache spilling a little gas station coffee on his brown polyester slacks and you’ll be picturing some Nunn Bush shoes. While working at Nunn Bush, selling those dope ass kicks, John is promoted to a management position and he meet his first wife, Marlynn Myers, a Nunn Bush coworker. The rare woman attracted to a shoe with a solid, no-nonsense tread and the tweed jacketed man
bold enough to wear it. E. September 1964: After dating for 9 months and having sweaty, awkward sex during which pasty Gacy undoubtedly left his black socks on, John and Marlynn wed. 1964 was a big year for Gacy. He also joined the local Jaycees chapter aka the United States Junior Chamber, a leadership and civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40 who want to develop business and management skills, perform some community service. And, until 1984, it was only dudes, and Gacy loved that. An organization of only young dudes that he could spend time with that wouldn’t seem overtly homosexual to his father. And it was with one of his fellow Jaycees with whom Gacy would later recount having his first homosexual experience with. The two men went out for drinks and then Gacy crashed on the guy’s couch where his new colleague gave him a blow job. (Gacy mom) “How are things going in Springfield John?” (Gacy) “Good ma! The Jaycees named me their Key Man - quite an honor. I just asked Marlynn to marry me and business is going real swell. Selling a lot of shoes. Lot of wingtips with the little tassles. They make a classy shoe Ma. Don’t tell dad but I had another accident the other night with a Jaycee buddy. We were sitting on the couch, pounding beers and talking about how attracted we are to women, you know, as men do, when next thing you know, I kind of stumbled from all the beer and suddenly, my dick is in his mouth. Damned-ess thing. He was so drunk he must of thought it was a woman’s nipple or something ‘cause he just started sucking on it. Don’t tell dad - he’ll probably think it means I’m gay or something in dat crazy Pollack head of his. Anywhoo - things are good ma.” F. 1965: By 1965, John was the vice President of the Springfield Jaycees and named third most outstanding Jaycee in the state. Getting that Jaycee on Jaycee blowjob is probably what pushed him into the top three. Strangely, the Jaycees make no mention of John in any of their literature. Huh. Weird.
just like I always said I was going to do!” (Student Mom) “That’s great! I’m so proud of you! Did the University of Iowa change their mind? I thought they turned you down!” (KFC student) “They did mom. They did turn me down. But it doesn’t matter now. I got into an even better school! One that doesn’t care I dropped out sophomore year or had a 1.2 GPA. I got into KFC University! And two weeks from now, fingers crossed, your son will graduate with a degree in original recipe fried chicken with a focus in drumsticks. You promised me a car if I ever graduated college mom, and I can’t wait to drive it two weeks from now.” (Student mom) “Um, yeah. Well, about that…” H. March 1967: In 1967, John and Marlynn would have their second and final child, daughter Christine. John also finally wins a little approval from his father around this time, with John Sr. taking him aside and telling the now married young father that he was “wrong about him”. (Polish accent Dad) “Listen son, I owe you an apology. If I’d a known you weren’t some queer little momma’s boy, I wouldn’t of beat the shit out yous your entire childhood. And I probably would’ve pulled a few punches on your ma as well. So, you know, sorry about the hassle. Proud of yous.” (JWG) “Thanks dad - I love yous.” (Polish accent Dad) “Whoa! Easy there Professor Prissy Pants! I said I was proud of yous! I didn’t say I wanted to put your balls in my mouth. Jesus! Let’s go have a beer and forget about how you just about made me punch your lights out for gaying out on me there.”
John continued his involvement with the Jaycees in Waterloo, becoming friends with the local chapter President and even getting his picture in the paper as a Jaycee where he was listed as “Colonel” Gacy, a nod to his KFC empire. Call me the Colonel! He also get heavily involved in Waterloo nightlife with his Jaycee buddies, frequenting bars and strip clubs and becoming quite the braggart - claiming now that he had laid “a hundred women”. Highly doubtful that he had sex with 100 women but he at least had sex with one who later claimed he was “strange” in bed and that he choked her when she refused to go down on him after intercourse. Funny use of the word “strange” - more like “Psychotic”. JWG started getting pretty weird with his wife, offering her sexually to his drinking buddies or telling them he’d let them sleep with her if they gave him a blow job. If this seems outrageous to you, it was. And if you’re wondering how he could get away with acting like that, well, the more I read about him, the more this picture emerges of the guy who makes outlandish statements under the guise of just fooling around. (JWG) “Hey buddy! I don’t really want you to blow me. Sheesh! I was just fooling around. You thought I was serious? C’mon! Can’t a guy kid around anymore?” He was that douchebag. A loud, obnoxious personality I have always loathed. He was the guy who was joking until you took him up on one of his “jokes” and then he was totally serious. Gacy was also involved in the Merchants Patrol in Waterloo. A sort of organized Neighborhood Watch patrol that guarded local businesses. Basically, a bunch of wannabe police officers. John was always drawn to authority figures. Always wanted to be around some sort of power and muscle. He also brought free chicken to local police officers and firemen several times a month. He gave money and free chicken to under privileged youth around Christmas time. He really went out of his way to show everyone what a good guy he was. He loved being a sort of big man on campus - the unofficial mayor. The guy who knows everyone’s name.
The balls on this deviant! And how the fuck is his wife okay with any of this? How is his father-in-law not threatening to pull the franchises from him? The police end up intervening on their behalf when someone finally rats this creep out. Sixteen year old Edward Lynch was working for John as a KFC dishwasher in 1967 when John invited him over to the basement for some beers, a little pool, watch a couple of pornos - you know normal shit for a grown man to do with a teenage employee. Fun-guy stuff! And, to make him an even bigger creep, he invites him over while his wife is still in the hospital after giving birth to their daughter. Class act! Well, they play a few games of pool, games Gacy clearly lets Edward win, and then John gets mad when Edward won’t take him up on the free blow job. “C’mon! I’m trying to be a nice guy here. Put ya balls in my mouth already!” Even Chikatilo thought the kid was being rude. Did I mention he was in the basement? (Chikatilo) “What is big deal? Why make fuss? You get rude about offer of penis in mouth? I get strange glance when make joke of using soft cock of shame for pool cue. You don’t want wrassle. You, how we say in Russia, real pooper of party!” So, upset about the blow job refusal, Gacy grabs a carving knife from the kitchen and tells Edward to get in the bedroom. They wrestle on the bed (Chickatilo) “Finally! Some wrassling!” ) and Gacy cuts Edward on the arm, then apologizes, bandages him up, and convinces Edward to watch some porn in the basement with him. Poor Edward. Clearly not the brightest of bulbs. When someone forces you into their bedroom with a knife, and you get away, you leave. Always. You don’t accept their apology and then watch some porn. Oh - and real quick - for first time listeners - Chikatilo is a real historical person - another sick serial killer - but was not really
in Gacy’s basement. Little inside joke that started back in Timesuck 57 this past October. Don’t want you getting hung up on that. Back to the action! Then, Gacy convinced Edward to let him tie him up, and when Gacy tried to rape and choke him he fought back, pissed himself, and Gacy came somewhat to his senses and drove the boy home. Well, Edward told some of his friends what Gacy had done, one of whom was Donald Voorhees, Jr. Donald - no relation do Donald McDonald - said that recently he’d had some weird encounters with Gacy. Said Gacy paid him $50 for some scientific sex research he was doing. Over the course of a few months, Gacy had gotten him drunk and gave him blowjobs. Well, the two kids decided to tell their parents, once of whom, Donald Voorhees, Sr - also no relation to Donald McDonald- is a fellow Jaycee who’s been helping Gacy run for Jaycee President. What was Gacy thinking? Molesting the kid of the guy helping you run for Jaycee office. Dude was a total psycho. The parents go to the police, incredibly no one tries to kill Gacy, and Gacy is charged with sodomy. ** Interesting legal note ** I always assumed sodomy was only anal sex, but legally, this is not the case. I did some digging, and, in Alabama, for example, “sodomy” is listed under the broader title of Deviant sexual intercourse, and “ Deviant sexual intercourse” is sexual relations “ between unmarried people involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of the other.” ****Side note on this side note**** **I did my sodomy research in a Denver Starbucks where I am positive I was creeping out numerous other customers. It was really crowded, there was only one place to sit where my back was to people standing in line to order behind me. Right behind me, like two feet away, and I had various web browser tabs open to serial killer documentaries, pictures of John Wayne Gary dressed up like a clown, and other serial killers, and I hadn’t combed my hair. They had to have thought “We should keep an eye on this guy.” ****
whole punching my wife’s teeth out, and all the other whoopings, and the constant leather whippings and wappings on little Johnny and the whole telling him he was a worthless crybaby queer his entire life. Oh, and being drunk all the time and scaring the shit out of my family and crippling all of them emotionally and what not. So, you knows, my bad. We good? Cool. Thanks God, you’re the fucking best.” K. June 18, 1970: On June 18th, 1970, John is granted early release. Real early. Dude served only 18 months for repeatedly molesting a teenager. Was finally able to get his high school diploma in prison as well which makes me really doubt his earlier business degree claims. Getting out early after a child sodomy charge. That shit makes me sick. When is this country gonna stop fucking around with sex offenders. Put those motherfuckers in a dark pit and leave ‘em there to rot. And, I know, I know - what if they’re innocent and wrongly incarcerated? Well, can we at least throw repeat offenders into a pit and leave them to rot? They didn’t get framed twice. Per conditions of his parole, Gacy had to go back to Chicago and live with his mother. He had a curfew and had to check in regularly with his parole officer. He took a job as a short order cook - I’m sure the waitresses loved working with him - and didn’t even make it a year before getting arrested again, charged on February 12, 1971, with sexually assaulting a teenage boy. Took the kid back to his house and tried to rape him before the teen escaped. But when the teen didn’t appear in court the charges were dismissed. And because police agencies didn’t communicate with each other effectively in the days before the internet, his parole officer never found out. Too bad. Lot of lives would’ve been saved had he gone back to prison. L. October 1971: In October of 1971 his parole ended and Gacy was truly a free man again. Also, he convinced his mom to move to a bigger house, and they moved to Norwood Park Township, an unincorporated area of Cook County just North and outside of Chicago. This house, located at 8213 West Summerdale Avenue, is where Gacy would live until his arrest in December 1978 and where he would commit all his known murders.
Also in 1971, Gacy started dating Cathy Hull, a woman who’d gone to high school with John’s little sister and a woman he had dated when he was 16. She was going through a divorce and John married her in July of 1972 and became a stepdad to her two daughters. What the fuck. She had to have known about his prison time. Why are you dating, as a mom, a dude with a sex offense conviction? I’m sure he convinced her it was all a big misunderstanding. I’m also guessing Cathy Hull is a dumb as a fucking rock. Sorry if she’s a sweet lady, but c’mon. How desperate are you, how dumb are you, and how low is your self esteem when you start dating a convicted sex offender fresh off of parole. How reckless to endanger your kids that way. John stared a contracting business in 1971 as well - PDM, which stood for Polish Dirtbag Molester, Inc. And people started hiring him to legally molest their boys. Of course not. PDM stood for Painting, Decorating, and Maintenance - and started taking odd jobs in interior design, remodeling, installation, assembly, and landscaping. Business started going well, he got his mom to move out so he and his wife and kids could have the house to themselves, he got his mother-in-law, who had also moved in, to move out as well, and then he went right back to surrounding himself with teenage boys. Just like he used to hire them to work underneath him at KFC, now he’s hiring them to work for him at PDM. M. 1972: In 1972, two years out of prison, the killings started. His preferred MO would become a “trick” he’d play on his victims over and over. He’d get a boy drunk, then pull out a pair of handcuffs and have the boy cuff Gacy behind his back. Then he’d uncuff himself and tell them he’d show them how to do it. He’d then handcuff their hands behind their back and then show them the key, explaining that the trick was to have the key the whole time. And, then, he’d fuck with them. Sounds like a terrible trick. Sounds worse than the infamous pull my finger fart trick. Several of the first few victims of this trick luckily lived to talk about it. He handcuffed an early teenage employee with the last name of
Lady Rosalyn Carter in 1978. He’d offer up his PDM employees for Democratic Party use, free of charge. Reminds me of Jim Jones offering his followers to political candidates in San Francisco. In 1975, he was the director of Chicago’s Annual Polish Constitution Day Parade. Through his membership in a local Moose Club, he got into clowning. As if clowns already didn’t have a bad name! He joined the Jolly Jokers, a clown club that performed at fundraising events, parades, and at children’s hospitals. He came up with three characters, “Pogo the Clown”, “Patches the Clown”, and “Donald McDonald” Kidding about that last one. I just really like saying Donald McDonald. Sounds like Ronald’s deadbeat brother. Ronald’s out there kicking ass, opening franchises, making that cheeseburger scratch and Donald’s out eating stale fries out of the dumpster. But Gacy, he really did do a fair amount of clowning, and if Hell is real, JWG is down there entertaining the Devil in his evil clown get up. Interesting note about Gacy’s clown alter egos is that, unlike the rounded makeup lines most clowns use to soften their features and look less scary, Gacy’s clowns had sharp angles that outlined the makeup around his eye and mouth. He was putting that evil out there, right for everyone to see. I bet that piece of shit creeped SO many people out. I bet when he got caught there was a lot more “I fucking knew something was wrong with that guy!” Than there was “Holy shit, really?? John????” He’d also show up sometimes at one of his favorite local bars, “the Good Luck lounge” still in his makeup and have a few drinks. The guy was so scary in so many ways. I think if a scary looking clown came in and sat next to me I’d quickly finish my drink and take off. Right after getting a pic for Instagram. I can only wonder what he’d say as a clown. “Heh heh heh! Hey kids! Who wants to see a trick!?! Who wants old Pogo to put some cuffs on you and sit on your chest! Heh! Heh! Heh! Some clowns have a flower that squirts water - MINE SQUIRTS CHLOROFORM! Want to see ol’ Pogo slip on the banana peel??
WELL TOUGH SHIT YOU JAGOFFS! POGO FALLS FOR NO ONE!
TIME TO DIE KIDDOS! TIME TO DIE. WE ALL FLOAT DOWN
HERE!!!!”
Gacy’s first known murder victim was 16 year old Tim McCoy. Gacy had picked him up at a Greyhound bus terminal the night of Jan. 2nd, 1972 when his wife was out of town. He took the kid on a sightseeing tour of Chicago and then back to his house for some booze. He raped the kid that night and then woke up to the kid, who he didn’t perform the handcuff trick on, coming at him with a knife he’d grabbed from the kitchen. I’m guessing he raped him. He’d say they just had sex, but I don’t think too many people come at you with a knife after a pleasant evening of buggery. After getting cut on the arm Gacy wrestled the knife away from the boy, ended up sitting on the kid’s chest, and stabbed him repeatedly. He’d later say he had a “mind numbing orgasm” as he killed the kid and realized death was “the ultimate thrill”. Damn. All these serial killers seem to share something similar to this moment Gacy’ just had. After that first kill, they’re generally not repulsed. They feel more alive than ever. Like they’ve just been shown their purpose. Like they’ve just been given a hit of their new favorite drug. He cleaned up the mess before his wife got home and then buried the kid in the crawlspace beneath his house. He’d end up burying all but his last few victims there. It’d be two years before John killed again. N. 1974: In January of 1974, Gacy would kill a kid who would never be identified, again when he was wife wasn’t home. Gacy would claim he couldn’t remember the kid’s name, which may have been true. He’d later claim to have picked up and brought home a few hundred teens, most of whom he’d only met that night, and couldn’t remember who all of them were. Some of the kids he brought back to his house with the promise of being a fun dude who wanted to give them a job, some were teen prostitutes. Other times he pretended to be a police officer and basically ordered them into the car and then handcuffed
