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THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT
THE UNIVERSITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
In the Matter of NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION v. ALICE TEST Section 3020-a Education Law Proceeding (File #XX,XXX) DATE: June 15, 2015 TIME: 11:10 a.m. to 1:23 p.m. LOCATION: NYC Department of Education Office of Legal Services 100 Gold Street, 3rd Floor New York, NY 10038 BEFORE: LEAH MURPHY, ESQ. HEARING OFFICER APPEARANCES: FOR THE COMPLAINANT: YEFAT LEVY, ESQ., of Counsel NYC Department of Education Office of Legal Services 100 Gold Street, 3rd Floor New York, NY 10038 Telephone: (212) 374- [email protected] FOR THE RESPONDENT: YVONNE MARIETTE, ESQ., of Counsel Office of Robert T. Reilly 52 Broadway, 9th Floor New York, New York 10004 Telephone: (212) 533-
Table of Contents
O P E N I N G S T A T E M E N T
NAME: PAGE:
Y. Levi 123 W I T N E S S E X A M I N A T I O N NAME: PAGE: J. Sumter Cross Examination 259 Redirect Examination 325 Recross Examination 336 C L O S I N G S T A T E M E N T NAME: PAGE: None noted. E X H I B I T S RESPONDENT DESCRIPTION I.D. IN EV. None noted. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DESCRIPTION I.D. IN EV. 1 Classifications 29 29 2 Chancellor Regulation D180 30 30 3 Chancellor Regulation A830 30 30 4 Staff handbook, school policy 37 39 handbook 5 Chancellor Regulations 38 39 Handout 6 Letter of conversation of OSI 51 --- Findings 7 Mr. Pinckney handwritten notes 56 58
(The hearing commenced at 10:10 a.m.) THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, yes, this is my scene a month. Okay. So just very briefly, the first thing is so closed captions for Miss Chadonic. She informed me, I actually wasn't reading them, but that she read something that it looked to her or what she read was that Miss Young, I think in questioning, said something about Miss Chadonic and this NIA staff member who assaulted her being involved. I told Miss Chadonic that I didn't hear Miss Young say that, and I don't think that was said, but understandably Miss Chadonic just needed it to be, we needed to clarify that there was no representation, there's no mistake, no one's under the impression that she was involved in any way with the person who attacked her. I did touch base with Miss Young who you know, it completely -- yes. I am happy to clear the record and said that that was not said I saw Principal Heerman also shook her head because she was testifying to my questions about the alleged
incident. I did not -- I apologize if that somehow came and I know you know, through the closed caption but that's not what's said that's not what was implied. I want to make the record clear that that was not said or implied in any shape or form. And I don't believe anyone believes that Miss Chadonic had any relationship with that person. So I just want to make sure that Miss Chadonic feels confident that the record is cleared regarding that issue. M0: Thank you. Thank you so much. That was just the first thing. So thank you. The second thing is, so as you know, Miss Chadonic is reading the closed caption. She doesn't have audio ability because of her condition. And so Miss Chadonic is having -- she's asking if we can, after about 10 minutes of testimony, to take a few minute break, few minute pause for her to just write down notes about the testimony so that she can keep track and communicate with counsel about areas for follow-up. So that's our request after every 10 minutes, if we can just take like three
the department will strongly object to that. M0: Yeah, I think it'll be very difficult to get through the testimony if we stop every 10 minutes. I think that if we stop occasionally, maybe once or twice, you know, we can do that, but just for no more than one to three minutes. And I'll say that Miss Chadonic can put up a hand when she needs a pause, and we can pause for two minutes. And I'll let that happen two times, okay? So anytime you need to, just twice. But I do want to try to get through the follow-up questions today. Okay. All right. F1: Okay. Thank you. M0: Thank you. F1: And if I can add, the transcript will be available as well. So, I mean, I am trying to get at least through my portion of the questions for Principal Heeraman today. I don't think we will be able to finish her completely today. But I am trying to get through my questioning so by the time that Miss Weinstein- Ammann and I need to do recross we probably going to have the transcript available from today or we
should it usually takes about a week but yeah. M0: Thank you. Okay, let's try to balance both of those things and all of those things, knowing that we probably won't finish that today, so we'll have a little bit of a lag so that there will be an opportunity, you know, to even go after -- go over the transcript, even with the two break, two limited breaks that I’ve set. Okay, all right. Well, let's get on the record. Oh, we are on the record. Principal Heeraman, you're going to continue. Ms. Young. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. YOUNG: Q. Thank you. Sorry, just one moment. So Principal Heeraman, you've been asked on -- you've been asked, I believe twice during your testimony. First time it was about the observation that you did on January 24th, 2023, and one of the APs did the observation right after you on January 25th, 2023. Do you remember? A. Yes. Q. And you were asked that there was no feedback in between those observations available
Q. Okay. Let me know when you can see it. A. I see it now. Q. Okay, great. I am directing you to page 62. I'm going to scroll to page 61 just to make it, sorry, to page 60 to make it clear from the records that it's part of J. I'm going to scroll down back to page 62. It's J2, subsection B, subsection 2. Can you please read the second sentence in subsection 2, starting from the time and observation? A. From the time and observation, formal or informal, as defined by the Commissioner's decision, is conducted until the time the teacher receives the evaluator form for that observation, only one additional evaluative observation, formal or informal, may be conducted. Q. Thank you very much. I'm going to stop sharing my screen. I'm going to start sharing my screen with you just in a moment. Do you remember testifying about the email chain between you and Miss. Chadonic. When you reschedule your meeting with Miss Chadonic, so Miss Chadonic can see a piece of LAMA regarding STARS.
A. Yes. Q. Do you remember testifying to the emails? A. Yes. Q. Okay, let me know if you need me to show the emails, but I'm going to ask you some questions about them. Can you just tell us what is STARS? A. So STARS is the student system that the DOE created for us to report students' attendance, our students' programs, and also just general information on pupil personnel on students’ personal information. Q. When did approximately DOE implement STARS? A. Since I've been an administrator, since I've been a teacher, I have been a teacher in the DOE for since 2000 and STARS was always there. Q. Okay, so it's fair to say that at this point of time it's been over 20 years at least. A. It's over 20 years, yes. Q. Okay, and can just can you tell us how many grading periods do you have throughout the year? A. Four. Q. Four. And approximately when are those grading periods? When they end? When the grades
offered was simply that she didn't cancel a meeting, she was just meeting with an AP to discuss the STARS program. F1: Part of her testimony was that the meeting for STARS was because Miss Chadonic did not meet her professional responsibilities that's why she rescheduled the original meeting for the observation feedback to do this so Miss Chadonic can meet her professional responsibilities. M0: I'm going to allow the question, yeah, go ahead. F1: So the question was for those first three periods, November, January, March, when approximately would be like beginning, middle or end of the period of the month, the grace would be due. A. Again, it's based on the 45 days. So however, when we break it up into quarterly into quarters, it runs the gamut and then also based on our recess time. So sometimes spring recess falls in February, sometimes it falls in March, so it's pretty hard to say the time the specific time of
the month whether it's the beginning, end, or middle. Right? It's just based on the 45 instructional days that kids are in school. That's difficult to say. Q. And the emails are a question, and again, I’m happy to share it, just let me know if you need to. They were written on January 30th,
A. Yes. Q. Do you remember that? A. For the 2020, so that’s, there would be 2022, 2023 school year, January 30th. Yes. Q. Can you just point me to which exhibit this is? Sorry. A. That's the respondent Exhibit 6. Q. Okay. Go on, sorry. A. The fact that Ms. Chadonic did not have her grades by January 30th, 2023, and you testified that she didn't meet her professional obligation, but not having her grades. F2: Objection! This was not the testimony. I'm sorry.
meet her professional obligations by doing the STARS. Principal Heeraman testified, yes. F2: There was no testimony. M0: If the question is around the grades, then I think I'm going to allow testimony to further explain some of the context there. F2: But I never said, and there was no testimony that she had not met her professional responsibilities. F1: Principal Heeraman stated that by not doing the grades during her cross-examination, the reason she allowed for this to happen and reschedule the -- cancel or reschedule, whatever word you want to use, for the observation meeting, you introduced, the respondent introduced. F2: I'm aware. F1: But now you are objecting for me to ask more questions about the exhibit that you introduced and you questioned the principal about. F2: No, I am not. I'm objecting to counsel adding testimony where. F1: But I am not adding testimony. M0: Why don't counsel rephrase the question to allow the witness to testify around that issue? F2: I would agree to that.
BY F
Q. Okay, that's fine. Principal Heeraman, why did you allow for Ms. Chadonic to participate in the STARS meeting with AP Salama on January 30th, 2023? A. I allowed her to participate in that meeting because the grades were due. January 31st is the time when -- it's a very important time across New York City. Department of Education is where we look at promotion in doubt and where all schools in New York City have to put in their promotion, have to record their promotion in doubt students. So we have that deadline of January 31st. The only way we could do that is by identifying which of the students failed specific courses. Ms. Chadonic did not yet put in her grades, so I guess she was having difficulty putting in her grades and using STARS. So she had requested, she asked me in an email to allow her during the time that we were supposed to meet to reschedule our observation, our post observation conference and for her to meet with Mr. Salama. So I thought that that prioritized her meeting, her and I meeting. So I rescheduled the appointment so that she can meet to get her grades in on time. Q. Is inputting grades into STARS a part of Ms.
However, in terms of teachers actually putting their information into STARS, reporting in STARS, that probably has been around for like 10 years. Q. 10 years. So by January 30, 2023, and even taking into consideration the years that Ms. Chadonic was out on leave or not teaching, she already had a chance to input grades into STARS prior to that. A. Yes. Q. Okay. I'm going to stop sharing my screen. So Principal Heeraman, during your testimony, and it kind of came throughout a few observations, you were asked where a teacher can revisit previous lessons. Do you remember? A. Yes. Q. And when you testified to that, you said that the guest teacher can, but within reasons. Do you remember stating that? A. Yes. Q. Can you explain that comment ‘within reasons’ and how it applies to Ms. Chadonic's revisiting the class? A. Absolutely. So in Ms. Chadonic's case, there was never any revisit of lessons. It was just the question that was posed by Ms. Weinstein. Is it okay for teachers to revisit lessons? And that's when I said yes. But in Ms. Chadonic's
case, it wasn't a matter of revisiting lessons. It was a matter of Ms. Chadonic having the same lessons over a period of time. So students were, and I think, not I think, but in my reports, observation reports, I specifically stated where students were working on the same test packet, ELA packet, and or the same task over two weeks. So that's what I made the reference to in terms of the question that was asked about teachers being able to revisit. So teachers can revisit only when they have assessed students and found that there was probably some missed information or missed opportunity for certain skills that were not clearly understood by students. So during the time that they are looking at assessments and they're trying to drive instruction using the assessment results, fine, then they can revisit certain questions and do what we call reteach. But that was not the case with Ms. Chadonic. There was no reteaching. There was just doing the same thing over and over every single day for a long period of time, over two weeks. Q. Thank you. I'm going to share my screen. One moment. Do you see this two-page document in front of you? A. Yes. Q. Okay. What is this document?
