Utopia by Thomas More: The Debate over Eliminating Private Property, Slides of Human Resource Management

In thomas more's 'utopia,' hythloday and morus engage in a thought-provoking debate about the merits of eliminating private property. Hythloday argues that it would lead to social equality and the elimination of poverty and suffering, while morus believes it would take away people's incentive to work and lead to a lack of respect for authority. Their arguments and the various aspects of utopian society, including its organization, occupations, and pleasures.

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2012/2013

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Elimination of Private Property?
Hythloday:
private property necessarily
results in injustice
if people acquire property, there
is inevitably an exploiting class and
an exploited class
eliminating private property =
eliminating poverty & suffering
Morus:
People are not perfect
Abolishing private property will
take away peoples incentive to
work
No respect for authority when
all men are treated equal
Is Hythloday right that we should abolish private property
and that would solve societys problems? Is More right to
abolish private property would ultimately ruin society? Is
Utopia meant to inspire reform as an idealistic model or is
meant to discourage reform because its such an absurd
and impossible example?
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Elimination of Private Property?

Hythloday:

  • private property necessarily results in injustice
  • if people acquire property, there is inevitably an exploiting class and an exploited class
  • eliminating private property = eliminating poverty & suffering

Morus:

  • People are not perfect
  • Abolishing private property will take away people’s incentive to work
  • No respect for authority when all men are treated equal

Is Hythloday right that we should abolish private property

and that would solve society ’ s problems? Is More right – to

abolish private property would ultimately ruin society? Is

Utopia meant to inspire reform as an idealistic model or is

meant to discourage reform because it ’ s such an absurd

and impossible example?

Organization of the Island

  • No competition amongst

cities

  • No hierarchy between

country and city

  • Everyone has to perform

agricultural labor

  • Social equality =

Economic prosperity

  • Capitol city = Amarout

Utopian Society

• Practice population control

and use colonies

• Hunger = greed

• Devalue gold and jewels

• Material possessions do NOT

reflect person’s character

• Can you teach a human being

not to be greedy?

Pleasure

  • reason and religion are entwined
  • reason  happiness  virtue
  • Definition of pleasure (118)
    • Any movement or state of body or mind in which we take natural delight
    • Natural delight: no harm to others
    • Doesn’t involve the loss of a greater pleasure
    • It doesn’t give rise to pain
  • Categories of true pleasure:
    • Mind: true knowledge and memory of a good life
    • Body: pleasantness that comes from eliminating discomfort through food and drink
    • Body: mysterious force that consists in peaceful and harmonious condition of the body (121)
    • Excited external senses

“They think that you would have to be completely mad to live a life of strict and demanding virtue if it involved not only giving up life’s pleasures but willingly enduring pain with no prospect of personal benefit” (116)

War

  • Reasons to go to war:
    • Self-defense
    • To help allies
    • To save other countries
  • Should avoid war at all costs

through (138):

  • Assassination
  • Bribery
  • Propaganda
  • Use mercenaries – Zapoletes (140)

Religion

• Monotheistic

• Religious tolerance

• Natural reason + religion

• Few priests

• Utopians are more like

what Christians should be

than Europeans

Questions for W 7/17 on Erasmus & Luther

  • Would you agree or disagree that Erasmus’ “Sileni” and Luther’s “95 Theses” essentially critique the same problems of the church? Why or why not?
  • Whose argument about free will do you find more convincing, Erasmus or Luther? Why?

Readings in Montaigne’s Essays for M 7/

  • “To the Reader” – p
  • “On educating children” – p37-
  • “That it is madness to judge” – p74-
  • “On the cannibals” – p79-
  • “On coaches” – p330-
  • “On the lame” – p351-